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Very good and well-thought out. Here's a thought regarding a well-known (In the USA, anyway) speech by President John F. Kennedy. In it, he stated, "...our problems are created by man, therefore they can be solved by man." I disagree.

The rebellion in Eden was instigated by a spirit creature, now known as Satan the Devil (translated as Resister the Slanderer). By getting Adam and Eve to rebel, he effectively gained authority over the Earth for a time. Tom has a post describing this in more detail, so I'll leave it as a statement for now.

So if the world as we know it is ruled by Satan and his demons, and mankind are under their influence, can the world problems be truly man-made? It is fair to say (following this line of thinking) that since these problems are supernatural in nature, then only a supernatural being can solve them (Supernatural not meaning ghosts, but simply God and His spirit creations)?

Of course, this line of reasoning depends on whether or not being fashionable is more important to a person than making their own decision. Not meaning offense to anyone, but if someone simply wants to believe in evolution or dismiss the Bible simply because all their friends are doing it (and some very smart and learned individuals), that counts as being fashionable. If a person were to consider the points that you brought up, and also accept a free home Bible study, the world will suddenly make more sense and such a person would have a solid hope for the future.

tom sheepandgoats

Odd that you should quote Kennedy after I quote Schlesinger. They were best of chums.

This from Wikipedia entry on Schlesinger:

He served as Special Assistant to the President in John F. Kennedy's administration. He wrote a detailed account of the Kennedy administration, entitled A Thousand Days.

Schlesinger was a prolific contributor to liberal theory and was a passionate and articulate voice for Kennedy-style liberalism.


It is a good quote. It also provides a line of logic that can be very interesting to explore. Also, it's a great conversation starter, especially for political people. I haven't found anyone who has asked that question before. ;-)

BTW: my new blog is at www.screech1976.typepad.com

Romulus Crowe

So let's see if I have this right...

Satan (Serpent) goes to Adam and says 'Why do you take orders from the Big Guy? You can run things yourself.'

Adam decides this is true. God, who could at this point have simply blasted Satan to atoms and told Adam to get back in line, instead says 'Oh, you think so? Right. I'm going to sit back and watch you do it. Let's see how you get on with you and that snake running things for a while.'

From a purely scientific viewpoint, I'd say Adam's way of doing things didn't work out, and isn't getting any better with time. Perhaps that's because of supernatural interference from Satan, perhaps it's simply because we just can't get along on our own. Perhaps both.

There are spirits around that aren't dead people. What they are, where they come from, nobody knows. Angels and devils - perhaps. The malevolent ones make themselves known more than the 'good' ones so it's hard to say how many of each are here.

Are they interdimensional beings? Are they the devils and angels of the Bible?

I don't know. Nobody does. My chosen line of work puts me in the no-man's land between religion and science, unable to fully accept or deny either. Evolution, I don't 'believe', but I consider the evidence. Similarly, I find many correspondences between what science reports today and what the Bible reported thousands of years ago. The X and Y chromosome tracking was one example. The Neanderthal/Nephilim link is another. I'm a scientist. I don't discount a historical document that's showing potential links to modern findings. To do so would be fundamentalism, and scientists shouldn't be doing that.

The Big Bang? Well, there's a new cosmological theory that suggests the structure of the universe is fractal, just as is found in many Earth-bound structures. If that should prove to be correct, the Big Bang will be wrong, Einstein's equations no longer fit, and the whole age of the universe has to be calculated again. So I can't give a definitive argument for or against the age of anything. No scientist with any sense would try.

From my perspective, I can't see why there's an argument between evolution and creation. As long as you don't insist on seven literal days of creation.

Adam doesn't turn up until 'day' 6, long after all the animals, birds and fish. There's no serious evolution since the dawn of Man in science. No dinosaur dynasties, no mass extinctions. It all happened before we appeared. Nothing much has changed since.

So why not? Dinosaurs might well have been running the place on 'day' 5, before God decided he didn't want a planet full of reptiles and diverted a convenient asteroid to wipe them out, then created man in his image to fill the planet instead. Those early chapters in Genesis cover a lot of time in a brief summary. They're short on detail.

I have to wonder sometimes if He might have been better off sticking with the reptiles. At least they didn't make bombs.

tom sheepandgoats


I've never heard of this new fractal theorey. Now you make me do more homework.


Me neither! I just got caught up on the 11th dimension and how it relates to the weak force of gravity and allows both Quantum and String Theories to coexist nicely.

Romulus Crowe

The fractal idea is in New Scientist, 10th March 2007. Some libraries might hold copies. It's no surprise that those who've built their careers on the current model are calling it all bunk.

Maybe it is, maybe it's not. Time will tell, but this idea is going to meet some pretty stiff resistance.

Good luck to them, I say. I do like to see complacency given a good shaking now and then.


@Romulus Crowe

You are correct in that there aren't 7 literal days , and that the Idea or concept of evolution could look like a very slowed down creation .

And I appreciate that the Big Bang , is probably more of an Asymetrical introduction of particle matter to the Universe , I REALLY appreciate that .

It reminds me VEry much of the statement of the Boreans , Being more Noble minded , and that would they not research the matter in front of them , it would be something ignoble on their part.

So if I may , I would like to introduce some scripture , with a certain idea attached ,
#1 Numbers 14: 34, As God was stating to this prophet a pronouncement against Israel , A Day for a year , a day for a Year is what I have given you "
in reference to Israel spying for 40 days , they received 40 years of wandering in the desert ( remember that they had JUST seen God part the Red Sea, so to doubt his command at THAT moment was probably not wise)

#2 Psalms 90 :4 and 2 Peter 3:8
Both state that a Thousand Years is as but a DAY to God .

The Idea here is that God does NOT measure Time the way we humans do , in Fact , we measure time but the rotation of our lonely Blue dot in the vast universe rotating around a rather average star . If for example we measure our years by the turn of the Galaxy instead ..... 1 Galactic year , our life span would equal some simple 3 or 4 seconds at most .......(Take a deep breath , your dead life is over). That thought was presented to me many years ago exactly the same way .

It was sobering because of the truth of it .
God's 7 creative "days" were indeed millions of years , ...... each .

tom sheepandgoats

Thanks, TC.

As this is an old post, I'm sure Romulus won't notice your comment. So I let him know.

Or address him yourself if you like. You know how bloggers enjoy thoughtful comments.

Lesia Valentine

A Day for a year , a day for a Year is what I have given you

This is the formula on which astrologers base (some of) our predictions. In addition to the ephemeral movement of the planets each day, if I use the positions of the planets say, five days after you were born, and compare them to the position they were in at the moment you were born, it will tell me what will happen in your fifth year of life. If I take the positions on the 40th day after your birth and do the same, I will learn about your 40th year of life. And so on.

I'd like to keep up with this conversation. Is there some way to subscribe to this blog?

tom sheepandgoats


I didn’t know that about days and years. But I know lots of things found in the Bible are found other places too. Legends of a great flood are found in cultures the world over. And we imagine the ill tempered gods of Greek mythology find their origin in the Nephilim of Genesis chapter 6.

I never learn anything tech-wise until I absolutely need to know it. Consequently, I don’t really know what subscribing to a blog is, though I’ve heard the phrase. You can sign up for a Google reader account to track whatever blogs you like and alert you when any of them have a new post. Is that what you mean? Other than that, I don’ t know. But if I have to do anything to make it happen, let me know and I will do it.

Lesia Valentine

That's very thoughtful of you, Tom, but truthfully, I'm not much of a techie, myself. I managed to find you again, and that is good for me.

Have you heard from Rom lately? Is he still among the living, or should we be taking photos with infrared film to try to locate him?

tom sheepandgoats

I'm not at all sure where he is, Lesia. Don't they holiday all summer in Europe? Or is that only on the continent? I miss him.

Lesia Valentine

Me, too. I don't know much about the customs of Europe. I just hope he's okay.

Lesia Valentine

He's baaaaaack. And thank goodness he's okay, mostly.

tom sheepandgoats

Cool! did he find if they are out there or not?

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