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Very well done! I enjoyed reading it immensely.

My mother had a close call this weekend with her heart, and she never expected to get to this point in her life. I personally never thought We'd see the 21st century in this system of things. Yet as I watch the world around us deteriorate, I can appreciate why so much time is being allowed to pass.

The legal argument is that mankind does not have the ability nor the right to govern himself. That if man tried, then disasterous consequences would follow. Jehovah must also bring to ruin those ruining the Earth. So allowing man to get to the point where there is no doubt that "no flesh would be saved," gives conclusive proof.

Who in the future could raise the same question when the answer is, "we tried that, and if Jehovah hadn't stepped in, mankind would be extinct?"

It is important to remember that our timescale is limited. 80 years seems a lot longer to us than it is when compared to all of human history, the age of the Earth, or the age of the universe.

Consider: how long did a day seem to you when you were 8? How about now? Try to stretch that out. How long does 100 years seem to us now? How about if we lived for another 800 years? This "delay" since 1914 is not a very long piece of time. It took Adam and Eve longer to have their first child. So we must keep in mind that, although we hope for Armageddon to come soon by our standards, we must also acknowledge that it may come "soon" by a different standard.


I didn’t know your top leadership lived in dormitories! The highest ranks of LDS Church leadership generally live in Salt Lake City apartments, or homes they may have owned long before going into high Church service (I believe our current Church president still lives in the home he and his wife moved into as a honeymoon couple in the 1930’s). I’m not implying any real comparison with this one, but I always found it interesting that Joseph Stalin lived in a small apartment for decades while ruling the Soviet Union.

The LDS Church has generally avoided the pitfalls of predicting an exact date for the end of the world, though ‘the time is near’ rhetoric has always been strong within the movement. Joseph Smith once made a statement that might have implied a second coming in 1891, but that is now mostly taken as being a colorful way of saying he did not expect to live to see that event, i. e ‘the lord said I’ll get to see him come again if I live to be 85’, not a common occurrence in those days, or even statistically today in a global sense. However the ‘prophets’ of many a Mormon splinter group seem to make these predictions quite regularly, resulting in many a disappointed polygamist.


You mentioned that some Witnesses have been disappointed "... but only in matters relevant to this system of things, which is not the real life".

There was a WatchTower article not too long ago that counselled against putting too much emphasis on the New System when conducting Bible studies. This was in reaction to the fact that many people were entering and then leaving the fold - presumably because of "expectation delayed". I couldn't help think that, since most Witnesses are very good at abiding by the Society's guidelines when conducting Bible studies, the real fault lies with the guidance and not with individual publishers.

Nevertheless, I do agree that emphasis should always be on the spiritual relationship with God (which can be enjoyed NOW) and not on the material benefits of the future New System.

tom sheepandgoats

I don't recall the specific counsel, let alone why it was given, let alone the presumed reason why it was given. But the advise seems common-sense enough that I've no doubt it was said, most likely along with a raft of other pointers for conducting studies.


Why does this story sound so familiar? :)

I truly hope that someday you and your family receive forgiveness for your sins. No one is good, no, not one.

tom sheepandgoats

Well....I can use forgiveness for my sins. My family, too, I guess. I'll go along with that. But no more so than anyone and not especially in connection with this post.

As for the familiarity, I know the reason for that. ;) I did indeed lift the circuit overseer's words from your post, and then gave them an application different from yours. The C O's words are all I lifted, and surely they are public domain.

But because I applied them differently, you seem to think I am taking a swipe at you. Maybe if our circumstances were reversed I would feel the same. Maybe I should have given you a 'head's up' For that, I do apologize.

I did not write the post with you in mind and neither said nor implied that you fit the bill. I don't know your circumstances. People change course for any number of reasons. Even where my words may fit someone's case precisely, people are complex, and no one's saying they're the only factor.

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