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Mike Felker

You may be surprised to find out that many non-JW's believe that they will live forever on the new earth. In fact, I made a video recently showing 4 very prominent evangelical scholars/pastors saying exactly that.

The distinction for me is that paradise earth is for all true followers of Christ.

tom sheepandgoats

Thanks, Mike. You made that point once before. It was actually you I was thinking of when I wrote "They also tell me of some fundamentalists who attempt to tack on paradise earth sort of as a vague afterthought, since several plain-as-day verses insist upon it. But it doesn't really fit in with their overall view, so the result is a kind of theological mush."

To the extent it's true, isn't it a Johnny-come-lately idea for them, or just an item buried somewhere in the fine print? Because the born-again churches certainly aren't known for it. It's not their reputation. Few people, I suspect even in their own ranks, would recognize a paradise earth componant to their beliefs.

Nick

"4 very prominent evangelical scholars/pastors..."

The Fantastic Four!

Better late than never, I guess.

How many prominent evangelical scholars/pastors are still talking about heaven?

I think it's more than FOUR.

OK Felker, 4 is definitely an improvement on 0, but have those scholars/pastors been passing on this info, are the people buying it?

If I go for a short walk down to my local C of E and have a chat with the folks there, what do you think they will say about this, what are they being taught?

Mike Felker

Tom, you are absolutely right that few rank-and-file evangelicals would know anything more about the afterlife than some mystic "heaven" that they will go to. But this stems from a much larger and foundational issue: biblical literacy. Most evangelicals are extremely illiterate of the Bible.

However, when it comes to those who really study the Bible (such as the ones in the video I edited), it is a different story. And the more I delve into theological works, the more I realize it.

With that, I commend JW's for being correct on their view of the new earth and seeking to dispel the "heaven" myth. Of course, there are some major difficulties I have with the two-class system. But at the least, I think JW's should be more careful to recognize that they are not unique in their paradise earth view. In fact, you will find that most "biblical unitarian" groups, by and large, are in complete unity on paradise earth and emphasize it regularly. Just to name someone; Anthony Buzzard is a major voice in this group.

tom sheepandgoats

Well....I may back down a little, but not too much.

If these four evangelical scholars are truly pastors, then they should rectify your observation that "most evangelicals are extremely illiterate of the Bible." That statement could not be made of Jehovah's Witnesses. Why should it be true of evangelicals?

That Jehovah's Witnesses are advanced in Bible knowledge compared to evangelicals and others, I attribute to an effective and dedicated organization which recognizes an obligation to "feed the flock", an organization which you regularly discredit. Until the rank and file come to appreciate the spiritual things at present enjoyed only by the four evangelical scholar/pastors, how can one not regard them as the rank and file of Jesus day: skinned and thrown about, like sheep without a shepherd? (Matt 9:36)

Mike Felker

Nick,

The fact that there are 4 of among the most prominent evangelical voices in theology and pastorship should say something. Would you like for me to provide more? Would it take a thousand? The point is, this view is not unique to JW's.

Tom,

Biblical illiteracy is a plague that has seeped into evangelicalism in addition to other "diseases" like relativism. Why should this be true of evangelicals? Because the Bible has taken a back seat, among a whole host of other reasons.

While I admit JW's are collectively more advanced in biblical literacy, I can't say this really matters in the end. Are JW's organized? Absolutely. Is their theology correct? Not at all.

TC

I am Building a 40 footer , 2 masted Ketch , with smallish windows , a nice Galley , and enough room for at least 4 people with storage and will be spending a LOT of time going from Port to Port, drinking some Port , and Trading some !! If Jehovah is kind enough to allow a fool like me thru that gate at the end of the Road that leads off to Life that "So Few" are finding ..... Indeed I will sail the seven or eight or however many seas there will be ! And Tom , There will be room on that Ketch for a week or two for you , ( so Practice yer Swabbin ya Land Rat !

tom sheepandgoats

Cool! Of course, I will want to bring my llamas.

BeReasonable

@Mike Felker- I think you would .... enjoy... the two most recent DVD's released by us dealing with the history of Jehovah's Witnesses.
They are entitled"
Jehovah's Witnesses
Faith In Action - Part 1 and 2!

In them both- much credit is given to the men from other religious faiths, who were courageous enough to step away from the status quo of the day, and not to follow the mainstream churches of Christendom but to seek and format themselves to Bible Truth!
I believe if it is credit you are seeking for our organization to give, and seeking for us to perhaps relinquish our claim to being UNIQUE in following the bible with integrity- this may be enlightening.

It is no way an admittance to other religious faiths possessing all the truthful understanding and applications of bible teachings, but it acknowledges that many have and ARE trying to do that.
Just a recommendation- you are familiar with us enough to know how to receive one!
Good day!

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